[She likes hearing it, yes. She frowns a little at it, but. It does help - it hits close to something that is on her mind.]
It has felt like that - like pushing someone to the brink. [She's struggled with suicidal thoughts herself often enough that it doesn't sit well with her.] I dislike feeling that we are only catching the ones desperate enough to barely try to avoid being caught.
I didn't expect to be hit with a curse, and perhaps if that hadn't sent things into a panic, we still could have found the other killer in the time left. But I really. . . ought to have committed either one way or another. If I was going to betray her misguided and unasked for trust, delaying it or only doing it piecemeal because I felt a little sorry about it didn't help anyone at all, and made us more vulnerable to a curse distraction.
[But that's really more just. . . personal difficulties.]
It's a delicate balance, and a difficult one to maintain even without the high stakes presented here. [he's...aware. it's why he's also navigating this conversation carefully but also casually enough because he does trust harrow with this information.] A victory is still a victory, of course, but everyone has to start somewhere.
You're correct though. Even if you don't have all of the evidence, if there's more to bring to light committing to your line of thinking will either aid the reveal or hinder it. But as someone who's withheld information that can help the defense...I understand that, too. [greed is very well aware of why they're greed, even if they aren't the same person anymore.]
Holding back too much leaves you equally vulnerable when you don't know what the defense has up their sleeve. [a pause.] You did the right thing in entrusting the others with the information you received. But, simultaneously, it would be best to have a plan for if things will be derailed.
People have noticed your skill. Those who wish to get away cleanly will likely go to lengths to ensure you don't catch on to what they're doing.
I didn't want. . . it seemed more likely to cause problems, to mention Grace was there.
[Grace's name coming up clearly made her more of a target, at least at first.]
Eleanor's killer had to be much stronger than Misa. I noticed it right away - but I also knew she had a power of some sort from Gluttony. I can't help feel that it would be much better to have caught them, when we already knew to be wary of Misa.
...it wouldn't have. Believe me when I say you did precisely what you should have, and you performed to the best of your ability even with the hinderances Miss Amane threw in at the last minute.
Especially given the fact that it's likely she would have still acted in this coming week once everything wore off, suspicious or not.
Well, yes. It was certainly never a long term solution. But I find what you say curious. You disagree that we ought to have been trying to find Eleanor's killer?
It comes back to motivations, Harrowhark. Naturally finding the truth is important, but in this case...I would say that perhaps looking back on it and questioning how you could have tried to find Miss Shellstrop's killer won't benefit you nearly as much as focusing on the week ahead.
Surely you realize this is only likely to make me more compelled.
[Forbidden lore. . . but she takes the point.]
No, I'll accept that direction, but let me dwell on it for one moment longer. Do you believe that it would be possible to have a Thursday night where no one dies?
Yes, I know. [tiredly. harrow and greed are unfortunately similar which means he really can only bank on their relationship being strong enough she'll take him at his word.] And you're free to dwell on it as long as you need to. I've dwelled on losses for years.
[don't? just admit that?]
But I ask that you leave that case behind, just this once. And I do still believe that it would be possible to have a week no one dies. It's a matter of using what knowledge you have to set things into motion prior to their start. And, of course, deciding what the best course of action would be.
People lie all the time. I would be very interested in knowing if a murderer knows more than a normal person. But I suppose I can't blame anyone for believing such an assumption.
[but bad.]
...to be honest, I'm not entirely sure myself. There isn't a secret to unlocking each floor or anything of the sort. It simply just happens. Once your final floor is unlocked, I can only guess it's a means to help you indulge further until enough is generated to fulfill your desires.
The principle behind murder being "worth more" fascinates me, from a thanergenic perspective. Is there an understood reason for this? Are there other actions, besides murder, that generate a disproportionately high amount of indulgence?
[I feel like she says this and then immediately is afraid the answer includes sex and that's going to have to be acknowledged in this conversation.]
[listen he does not want to talk about sex either.]
I believe it's the idea that it's...well. It's a theory, rather. I don't have proof yet and I haven't had time to further research the reasoning behind it, all things considered. But I do believe murder is "worth more" is simply because you're eliminating one other person you won't have to share with in the end. It's what makes sense from a strategic point of view.
[it's not exactly one he agrees with, but there's that.]
[Okay, so it's sex. Got it. Moving on. Follow up questions with Wrath later.]
That's what Despair told me at the outset, and makes more sense than viewing murder as an indulgence - outside of certain maniacs we've had here, it wouldn't seem to fit.
. . . Researching that type of thing is difficult or dangerous for you? Wrath said something about that.
[yes, please go talk to wrath and leave him out of this, thank you!]
I'm sure it's possible it can be an indulgence if a particular sin is applied, but for all intents and purposes it's about thinning out the winning pool. The more indulgence available and the less people to share with, the more likely you'll get what you came for.
[but they pause to watch maus for a bit who's trotting along and having a good time.]
Yes, but most of us continue to try anyhow. [see: four morons getting their shit wrecked.]
[That doesn't really sit well with her, for a number of reasons.]
. . . Mm. Yes. I've already spoken with Pride about the excursion this week. [Really the last thing she would want is for him to believe that he needs to share details of a personalized torture that shook him as badly as he was when he returned. She doesn't believe herself entitled to them.]
Is the information gathered worth the cost? The larger picture. . . is it something other than fending off murder attempts until we finish indulging enough to leave?
Ah. I hope what you heard from him was informative...? [tentatively, like he wants to ask, but he doesn't press. the thing is that hilariously if harrow even gave any sort of indication she was curious he'd tell her. but if she seems like she doesn't want to know, he'll keep the information to himself.
that's what emotional repression does to you, i guess.]
I'm of the belief that all information is worth it. If only so we can truly understand some of the things occurring around this base, and what the bigger picture fully entails.
[Yes, they are the same messed up person in so many ways so they will never press the other about personal topics even though they'd both be willing to share. I accept this about them.]
I don't think all information is worth any cost. No one ought to be. . . boiling their own blood just to see what happens. It's a matter of assessing whether the danger is worth what we get from it.
[There's a scold there, but it's gentle; she knows their intentions were good and the risk seemed worth it in this case, it's just - ever since she learned the Avatars can get more information but will tend to pay a price for it, she's been fairly skeptical of his ability to not overdo it in particular.
She is curious, but she also saw something on Thursday in him, a more fragile core he's protecting with all of the authority and pragmaticism he projects. It did change something about the way she saw him, that he needed her to bark orders at him until he was able to pretend he wasn't in shock, and she feels a little fiercely protective about it. If he would prefer not to have to acknowledge it and would rather wear his armour again, she wants him to be able to.]
It was. You may correct me if I misunderstood anything I was told. The four of you went to investigate the places we've been disappearing to.
From what I understand, you were separated and shown illusions of a personal nature. In some ways, this all started because the four of us who vanished that first week somehow encountered an illusion of a person dear to Pride in there. He saw her, too, but was able to confirm she was only an illusion.
For the most part, it sounded as though what you encountered had no higher purpose except to be traumatic and violent. [Gross. She sounds offended on their behalf!] But Pride mentioned having a "theme," overcome with an emotion that sounded like Envy. It would tie in with ours having a theme of gluttony and the other having a theme of greed, both concluding with a test. But Pride did not think you four were being tested, just toyed with.
The difference, of course, being that I wouldn't boil my own blood when it's very clear what the results would be. [that's hardly helpful. and he gets her point. it's a matter of assessing dangers before heading into them, but what happens when you think you have a general idea of the danger you're running into? or, rather, what happens when you realize you need to know and that need is greater than anything else?
you lose your eyes, that's what.
it's...humiliating to think about the fact that he was so openly exposed to so many people, including people he actually likes and respects. miles edgeworth has never been good at outwardly showing emotion (tears of frustration as a child aside) and so to be left in a position where he was vulnerable...in a way, it makes it feel as though it doesn't matter anymore. let them ask questions.
but there are still things that are unsettling to him.]
That's correct. Gluttony and I have been doing our own research, and Pride wanted to try and see if he could find his daughter. Envy tagged along for his own reasons.
We arrived in the same place, but upon entering the door we were quickly separated. Illusions were inflicted upon all four of us, but even knowing that...we proceeded anyhow.
[there's a pause.]
In a sense, I felt that only my goal mattered. My goal was just as important as everyone else's, and they shouldn't get to have theirs while I didn't get mine. Abandoning the others made sense. After a time it seemed that I should only be working for myself. So, after reflecting upon it, I would agree it was a thematic sort of envy.
Likewise, I would agree with Pride. It was very clearly a means to mock us rather than test us.
Yes, that's similar to what Pride described - a feeling of preoccupation with what others had, not wanting to lose anything.
[Ugh.]
I am glad you decided to try to investigate it, considering how dangerous these have been - though notably Mollymauk was spit out before he was killed, and although we were killed it was with an immediate resurrection. The hostile reaction to the four of you in particular I suppose ought to be taken as a message that these are meant for us, not for you.
I wonder what you did to find a way there? Is that something you can explain?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
It has felt like that - like pushing someone to the brink. [She's struggled with suicidal thoughts herself often enough that it doesn't sit well with her.] I dislike feeling that we are only catching the ones desperate enough to barely try to avoid being caught.
I didn't expect to be hit with a curse, and perhaps if that hadn't sent things into a panic, we still could have found the other killer in the time left. But I really. . . ought to have committed either one way or another. If I was going to betray her misguided and unasked for trust, delaying it or only doing it piecemeal because I felt a little sorry about it didn't help anyone at all, and made us more vulnerable to a curse distraction.
[But that's really more just. . . personal difficulties.]
no subject
You're correct though. Even if you don't have all of the evidence, if there's more to bring to light committing to your line of thinking will either aid the reveal or hinder it. But as someone who's withheld information that can help the defense...I understand that, too. [greed is very well aware of why they're greed, even if they aren't the same person anymore.]
Holding back too much leaves you equally vulnerable when you don't know what the defense has up their sleeve. [a pause.] You did the right thing in entrusting the others with the information you received. But, simultaneously, it would be best to have a plan for if things will be derailed.
People have noticed your skill. Those who wish to get away cleanly will likely go to lengths to ensure you don't catch on to what they're doing.
no subject
[Grace's name coming up clearly made her more of a target, at least at first.]
Eleanor's killer had to be much stronger than Misa. I noticed it right away - but I also knew she had a power of some sort from Gluttony. I can't help feel that it would be much better to have caught them, when we already knew to be wary of Misa.
no subject
Especially given the fact that it's likely she would have still acted in this coming week once everything wore off, suspicious or not.
no subject
no subject
no subject
Surely you realize this is only likely to make me more compelled.
[Forbidden lore. . . but she takes the point.]
No, I'll accept that direction, but let me dwell on it for one moment longer. Do you believe that it would be possible to have a Thursday night where no one dies?
no subject
[don't? just admit that?]
But I ask that you leave that case behind, just this once. And I do still believe that it would be possible to have a week no one dies. It's a matter of using what knowledge you have to set things into motion prior to their start. And, of course, deciding what the best course of action would be.
no subject
Hmm. Is it correct, that murder counts for a larger amount of indulgence than other actions?
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
[Yikes, okay.]
What happens when we've been to all the floors?
no subject
[but bad.]
...to be honest, I'm not entirely sure myself. There isn't a secret to unlocking each floor or anything of the sort. It simply just happens. Once your final floor is unlocked, I can only guess it's a means to help you indulge further until enough is generated to fulfill your desires.
no subject
no subject
no subject
[I feel like she says this and then immediately is afraid the answer includes sex and that's going to have to be acknowledged in this conversation.]
no subject
[listen he does not want to talk about sex either.]
I believe it's the idea that it's...well. It's a theory, rather. I don't have proof yet and I haven't had time to further research the reasoning behind it, all things considered. But I do believe murder is "worth more" is simply because you're eliminating one other person you won't have to share with in the end. It's what makes sense from a strategic point of view.
[it's not exactly one he agrees with, but there's that.]
no subject
That's what Despair told me at the outset, and makes more sense than viewing murder as an indulgence - outside of certain maniacs we've had here, it wouldn't seem to fit.
. . . Researching that type of thing is difficult or dangerous for you? Wrath said something about that.
no subject
I'm sure it's possible it can be an indulgence if a particular sin is applied, but for all intents and purposes it's about thinning out the winning pool. The more indulgence available and the less people to share with, the more likely you'll get what you came for.
[but they pause to watch maus for a bit who's trotting along and having a good time.]
Yes, but most of us continue to try anyhow. [see: four morons getting their shit wrecked.]
no subject
. . . Mm. Yes. I've already spoken with Pride about the excursion this week. [Really the last thing she would want is for him to believe that he needs to share details of a personalized torture that shook him as badly as he was when he returned. She doesn't believe herself entitled to them.]
Is the information gathered worth the cost? The larger picture. . . is it something other than fending off murder attempts until we finish indulging enough to leave?
no subject
that's what emotional repression does to you, i guess.]
I'm of the belief that all information is worth it. If only so we can truly understand some of the things occurring around this base, and what the bigger picture fully entails.
no subject
I don't think all information is worth any cost. No one ought to be. . . boiling their own blood just to see what happens. It's a matter of assessing whether the danger is worth what we get from it.
[There's a scold there, but it's gentle; she knows their intentions were good and the risk seemed worth it in this case, it's just - ever since she learned the Avatars can get more information but will tend to pay a price for it, she's been fairly skeptical of his ability to not overdo it in particular.
She is curious, but she also saw something on Thursday in him, a more fragile core he's protecting with all of the authority and pragmaticism he projects. It did change something about the way she saw him, that he needed her to bark orders at him until he was able to pretend he wasn't in shock, and she feels a little fiercely protective about it. If he would prefer not to have to acknowledge it and would rather wear his armour again, she wants him to be able to.]
It was. You may correct me if I misunderstood anything I was told. The four of you went to investigate the places we've been disappearing to.
From what I understand, you were separated and shown illusions of a personal nature. In some ways, this all started because the four of us who vanished that first week somehow encountered an illusion of a person dear to Pride in there. He saw her, too, but was able to confirm she was only an illusion.
For the most part, it sounded as though what you encountered had no higher purpose except to be traumatic and violent. [Gross. She sounds offended on their behalf!] But Pride mentioned having a "theme," overcome with an emotion that sounded like Envy. It would tie in with ours having a theme of gluttony and the other having a theme of greed, both concluding with a test. But Pride did not think you four were being tested, just toyed with.
no subject
you lose your eyes, that's what.
it's...humiliating to think about the fact that he was so openly exposed to so many people, including people he actually likes and respects. miles edgeworth has never been good at outwardly showing emotion (tears of frustration as a child aside) and so to be left in a position where he was vulnerable...in a way, it makes it feel as though it doesn't matter anymore. let them ask questions.
but there are still things that are unsettling to him.]
That's correct. Gluttony and I have been doing our own research, and Pride wanted to try and see if he could find his daughter. Envy tagged along for his own reasons.
We arrived in the same place, but upon entering the door we were quickly separated. Illusions were inflicted upon all four of us, but even knowing that...we proceeded anyhow.
[there's a pause.]
In a sense, I felt that only my goal mattered. My goal was just as important as everyone else's, and they shouldn't get to have theirs while I didn't get mine. Abandoning the others made sense. After a time it seemed that I should only be working for myself. So, after reflecting upon it, I would agree it was a thematic sort of envy.
Likewise, I would agree with Pride. It was very clearly a means to mock us rather than test us.
no subject
[Ugh.]
I am glad you decided to try to investigate it, considering how dangerous these have been - though notably Mollymauk was spit out before he was killed, and although we were killed it was with an immediate resurrection. The hostile reaction to the four of you in particular I suppose ought to be taken as a message that these are meant for us, not for you.
I wonder what you did to find a way there? Is that something you can explain?
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)